tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC October 11, 2019 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
the last couple of minutes we got a new report from the "new york times" and looking at the first report that this's attorney is under sh kind of criminal investigation for his work in ukrain. cnn was first to report that and abc and bloomberg had similar reports. all of those have tied the reports to giuliani of the arrest and indictments of people he was working with that were arrested on campaign finance charges. giuliani is said to be under investigation for ukrain work. and in the description is specific. ros kurts were investigating whether the president's lawyer broke laws meant to coavert public influence. meaning he's under investigation also for lobbying laws and
potentially foreign agent laws when it comes to this work in ukrain. i'm telling you this weekend is going to be like the last couple of weekends. no rest for the it wicked. that does it for us tonight, at least for now. see you again soon. now it's time for the last word. good evening, ari. >> one question before you go and lovely to see you in my home town of seattle. hope aev within is treating you great. >> it's great. >> and mr. giuliani finds himself under scrutiny thrum it same u.s. attorn itty's office he led in the 1980s where he trees prominence as a quote tough on crime rprosecutor. i guess the question becomes given that great knowledge, is that something he completely disregarded or hurts him because he ought to know better? >> i think people who have fall eoed rudy giuliani's career have seen it as a sort of biefricated
or trifericated thing. when he was a new york prosecutor and mayor, you could define him in one way and if you agreed or dedidn't agree, they're rationally connected. and then he became a national republican political figure and now he's this new thing. and there doesn't seem to be much of a connection between his behavior now and his life starting as a prosecutor. i don't know. this is a very dramatic turn it in his biography and almost seems like the obvious next step in the impeachment inquiry. the guys he's connected with have been arrested on conspiracy charges and if he's been saying publicly he's doing work in ukrain. i maean he's walked and talked n this. it will be interesting to see the former prosecutor for the
southern district of new york get indicted by the southern district of new york. >> rachel, i know you had a very long and busy week and you're busy out there. everyone should check out the book and have a great time in seattle. >> absolutely. i appreciate it. there is breaking news out thef white house can which is topping the impeachment inquiry of president trump. and this "new york times" story crossing the wire late friday night. this whole day began with the it live drama of whether the former ambassador of ukrain will testify . she did show up flanked by her attorney and we'll hear more about what she did and why the trump administration tried to silence her. and today ended with live drama on fox news. the live announcement from shepherd smith that afterf 23
years today it's his last show. his departure after this public feud with tucker carlson and donald trump himself attacking the same network over at least some of their coverage. then donald trump was shouting out certain anchors by name since the whole scandal broke. and he's here tonight with his reporting the hadcluding questions about the timing with attorney general barr meeting the head of of the entire fox news corporate parent. so we have lot to get to tonight when we talk about big stories this week. another diplomat break their silence. the ambassador in the growing ukrain scandal an unflinching indictment and a devastating portrayal of what she described as his very provable national security failings. this being detailed from someone inside the administration.
first-hand knowledge. marie yovanovitch testified today in what quaswas a very detailed nine-hour session. something the trump administration tried and failed to block. and describing what he heard from her. >> i just sat through eight hours that went like a new york second. it was that amazing, that powerful, that impactful and just feel very fortunate to have been there. >> fortunate to bear witness of that. we don't have all eight hour oz of transcripts. but we have our opening statement that says she was incredulous the u.s. government chose to remove an ambassador, as best as she can tell by unfound and false motives. that's the reference to the man as of 10 minutes ago the "new
york times" says is under investigation by the new york feds, rudy giuliani and his allies trying to make money off of the foreign policy. individuals who have been named as contacts of giuliani may well have believed their personal and financial ambiltions were stymid in ukrain. she was forced to leave kiev the very next spring and number two told her although she'd done nothing wrong, the president simply lost confidence in her. he added there had been a consrco concerted campaign against me and an effort to remove her since 2018. she was name checked with the president of the heart of ukrain and the president said then it was quote bad news and the people she was dealing with in ukrain were also bad news, quote.
so i wanted to let you know that. trump was expressing that view unwhat he thought in that moment was a private, secret call that would remain secret like most of those high-level foreign calls. he couldn't have known it would soon leak or tip off the impeachment probe to a new height or that she would know what he said and strike back today speaking to this congress and these investigators considerering t considering the impeachment of donald trump. quote our frts were intended in t thwarting corruption in ukrain. sadly someone was listening and our nation is it the worse off for that. i'm going to pause to tell you when public servants speak like that in a public forum, they are taking a risk. they are writing off their most
reecean recent boss and recommendation and everything else. but there is clearly something they're trying to tell us tonight. late this afternoon we also learned that she had to be subpoenaed in order to get that stark assessment to the public. she's balancing between the orders she gets from the government and another particulate of the government. the administration and the congress. so the house chairs on the democratic side said the state department at the it direction of the trump white house directed her not to appear and this the house thetelligence committee issued a subpoena to compel her testimony this morning. next week they have a string of high profile officials that includes the trump russia advisor, fiona hill. she plans to tell congress giuliani and sondeland circumvented the process to pursue quote shadow policy on ukrain. familiar source tells nbc.
after being told their whole plot was crazy and with holding security systems to go after the bidens was crazy? he plans to testify in defiance of those initial trump efforts to silence him. that's a lot coming down the pike and there's more. intelligence committee chair adam schiff writing to colleagues tonight. i'll put it on the screen. he says he will be expecting to announce new testimony from relevant witnesses in the coming days and prepared to compel testimony through dually authorized subpoenas where appropriate. >> i also want to express my appreciation for not just what a great champion she was over the rule of law in ukrain but the respect she has for the rule of law here at home. and her willingness, when served with compulsory process, to
followo the law and testify and i think she is a curages example for others and i think all the members who were extraordinarily impressed with her testimony today. >> former u.s. ambassador of russia has actually known mrs. yovanovitch for years. they're both national security analysts here are us and joining us tonight, former senior director for counterterror and executive director of of the institute for constitutional advocacy and protection. ambassador, mcfall, what does it mean to hear so starkly from this former ambassador today and what does it mean to have her point her finger in a measurered way but nonetheless point her finger at giuliani and his associates when we're learning from the "new york times" moments ago he's also under
criminal scrutiny? >> well, first i want to underscore what you said earlier. we've only seen her prepared testimony. we have not heard the nine hours of what she revealed today in that setting. but the prepared text, i just urge all of your viewers to read it. it is profound. it is shocking. she is saying very bluntly i was trying toing do my job as a u.s. official. i took an oath of office to the united states of america and other private people and mr. giuliani, first and foremost, were trying to interfere into the diplomatic work she was trying to do. it's just very clear, very blunt, very diplomatic but i was really shocked at what was in that statement. >> evelyn. >> i mean i agree 100% with what mike just said.
i found it shocking so much from -- and there were a lot of it mention that she was essentially pushed out because she was standing up against corruption in ukrain. what we didn't know, those of us who follow ukrain is this other back storyf of the fact there were these rogue americans trying to the fluence ukrainian policy and working essentially behind her back. or in front of her but not paying any heed to her. so making her ineffective and breaking the law. she's a care ages person. a straight arrow. i work would erheir in the administration and afterwards when i was a think tanker and consultant travel tooling ukrain when she was ambassador. she's a straight arrow. she's very well respected. the good thing about her is because she's so senior she really has the strengths of the whole foreign service behind her. that bureaucracy has a strong union in terms of how they
handle personnel issues. so i think that helps in contrast to for example andrew mccabe and the department of justice where he turned out to have lost when he came forward and tried to confront his o organization. >> i want to play what we're hearing from the president who isn't known to have the deepest grasp of every official but has certainly drilled down on ukrain as a matter of interest and was criticizing this very person. take a look. >> i heard very bad things about her and i dont know if it i recalled or somebody recalled her but i heard very bad ithing about her for a long period of time. not good. >> again we know now from the transcript that he was relaying things and from the whistleblower that he was relaying basically gossip he
heard from giuliani. and i think the other thing she makes clear from her testimony if you read it is you have to understand what's happening in ukrain. there are all kinds of factions and i can know mike mcfall knows this very well. there are all kinds of factions inside ukrain. they were using giuliani as much as he was trying to use them. squeshe understood who the good guys were and bad guys were and the people throwing dirt on joe biden were not good guys. >> what president trump calls bad things most ous would regard as good things. that's what our former ambassador was doing there as her testimony today, at least the part we've been able to read, makes clear. she was trying toing do what any u.s. ambassador should do which is push a can country away from krupgsz. corruption. while he's claimed it was his efforts to redact corruption, it was his lawyer rudy giuliani,
injecting corruption into the system. >> do you see this as donald trump's impeachment stonewall strategy seeping out? they may want to speak and at times disagree with the device or request not to but they honorer it. there's something differants happening when we see a failings of officials to speak out. >> before the people they were preventing from going to testify in the mueller investigation instance were don mcgahn a guy who really didn't want to come forward and be a whistleblower and didn't want to testify. so he chose to pretend this white house ban was something real and legal and he hasn't can come forward, right? and some of the rother folks thy said they were going to subpoena and they agreed to pretend that the white house could block them. and what the ambassador did today was to prove that's all a bunch of hot air.
if you want to testify, even if you're still work interesting the u.s. government, you can. >> when you take this together, the way that actual ukrain issue is shifting, at a certain point if we simplify it. there's a lot of names and details to it. is this a scandal that started out looking like international watergate but now has elements of iran contra? >> those are hard dots for me to connect. >> let me follow up and let you go. the dots being the biden stuff is abusive power for election year. but if there's a broader national security intrigue, it might be both worse and would involve a lot of other people being press ood do things not part of the thanational securit and gets complex when they say the buddies wanted something
else ukrain didn't want. maybe they just agree. there's a lot of money that splashes around international foreign policy. unpack for us where these lines are. >> so i think at had it base giuliani was trying to help one of his clients, the president of the united states, dig up dirt on an electoral opponent and brought in these wo it kbies that were arrested. prr the quid pro quo was other financialests that mr. if frumon and mr. parnas had. and i just want to say we need to know the facts but possibly the private economic interests of those guys and not in the interests of american people.
>> and we're going to keep going. no breaks. we have the "new york times" with a late friday night story. quote federal prosecutors are investigating whether trump's personal lawyer broke lobbying laws in his dealings with ukrain. that's according to two people familiar with the inquiry. they're undermining efforts for the it ambassador who we've just been discussing. as i was discussing with rachel moments ago we're joined by the "new york times" reporter who broke the story of michael schmidt, washington correspondent. thanks for jumping on the line. what it did you find? >> well, basically the same office that giuliani led and helped make him tries prominence in the '80s is looking at his conduct in connection with ukrain. whether he was properly lobbying and had properly registered to do that.
and what was behind his efforts to oust the united states ambassador in kiev? was it simply because he was trying to bring out corruption? or was he doing that on behalf of ukrain that wanted her out? what was behind it? >> and the quotes you have from mr. giuliani, these are new responses to your reporting. is that correct? >> corrects. >> let me read this for the it viewers and get your analysis. you have this real block buster story that rudy giuliani is under investigation by the office he used to run. he says if they havegy degree of objectivity or fairness, it would be difficult to say i was doing it it on they're behalf when i was doing it for thes of the united states. tell us what that means and what kind of defense that is.
>> i'm not sure what it means. i think what he's trying to say is he was acting on the president's behalf to try and get information that would help clear the president's name. remember giuliani heads can down this ukrain rabbit hole in an effort to clear trump's name. he thinks it has been sullied by the mueller report, by the investigations of michael cohen and this is the only way that he could sort of help trump coming into 2020. is to go to ukrain to find things that would help him and he thought perhaps this ambassador was something that was standing in the way of rooting out that corruption and it ties back in, obviously to the call the president had with ukrainian president in july where he's asking for those type of investigations. giuliani was frustrated with the ambassador and thought the ambas c -- ambassador was stopping or not doing enough. >> you have covered a lot of
sensitive criminal congressional investigations in the trump era, which some would note is a target rich environment. i'm interested on what you do know what kind of case this looks like to you. does this look like a complex multi-year case or something where the "new york times" just arrested giuliani was associates and they might move swiftly one way or the other? >> i think what's going on is giuliani has been open about it. he goes on television and talks about it. talks to newspapers about it, try too tries to put different documents out about it. and if you talk to experts they have looked at this and said this doesn't make sense. the fact that he put all this out there, my guess, has hade it easier for investigators as they try to understand what he has done. he's been an open book on this
and he believes he's done nothing wrong and believes this is the best way to try and help trump come nothiing into 2020. >> if what you're reporting suggests that mr. giuliani's public and incriminatinging statements and on television have hurt him, then i guess this is a classic situation of like president, like client. two individual whose have certainly drawn attention with public admissions. i know it's a busy night for your busy friday. thank you for jumping on the line, sir. appreciate the reporting. we're going to keep going with contectst. jennifer reuben, opinion writer at "washington post." also a msnbc contributor. we're digging deeper into the story with the "times." which was different than last time we had you on but it's that kind of friday night. your reaction to the story?
>> it is the ultimate fall from grace. the guy who is it the tough on law prosecutor and tough on criminals sort of mayor is now himself being investigated by the southern district. the irony, if you will, cannot be lost. it is also the case that giuliani is now caught in this web of schemes he has sort of created and both gotten involved in. object one hand he is trying to find evidence for this crack pot theory that trump was really done in by the ukrainians. it was they who was investigating and looking to make trouble in 2016, not the russians, for which there's no support whatsoever. and whatever he thinks is throughout about hunter biden. again nothing out there. he also seems to be playing the game going the other direction with these two associates arrested. part of what they're being
accused of is that they are funneling money back to a -- and somehow they're going to get rid of this ambassador. so this is getting to be an extremely complex web but doesn't really make sense to say trump was directing him in all of his dealings. trump only had one part -- one interest in one part of that. >> and if michael cohen's precedent is anicks, it's not clear that will hold. the defense requires the president still staying on board with it and there hasn't been double loyalty that much. which will he continue to be a advocate for the president. and the president saying today he's not sure if it rudy is his lawyer. and giuliani asserting he is
still his lawyer. i did speak earlier this week to someone undoubtedly the president's lawyer. that's jay sekulow. and the time he gave the most ground was around anything giuliani was up to, which was in theest interesting. >> it was out of my jurisdiction. >> when did you learn rudy giuliani was asking foreign governments to investigate joe biden? >> i learned i guess when you did because that was not in my jurisdiction. >> i'm asking when you knew. you don't know when i learned it. >> i didn't know anything until it got public. >> when it spilled the to the public report oing? >> yeah. >> jennifer and jonathan? >> these people are rotten in answering questions they don't want to answerer. you need get rid of the pauses
and the blinking eye lashes. i think what they are doing is the preverbial throwing rudy under the bus. pompeo has an inters in separateli separating himself from rudy, the president has an interest for separating himself. bill barr does and if it's all of those people saying i dont know what he was doing out there, then the primary defense which he's throwing out and i'm doing this all for the president seems to go away. and this sounds like he's being kicked to the curb. >> well, rudy is thrown under the bus by donald trump? stop the presses. this is what we expected from donald trump for a long time. i think what's changed is the involvement of jeffrey vermin. he is the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. hers are the one who had these
two side kicks arrested and launched an investigation of rudy giuliani. he was not stopped from doing that by his boss bill barr, which suggests he recognizes he has jeopardy to. if he were to intervene, he would have a problem. what that means is we now have a parallel investigation. for the impeachment investigation. this whole matter is now the subject of a criminal investigation. a lot of times people define this by is there a is special counsel or onot. they have the same powers as a u.s. attorney. in some ways you're saying this is as intense or more so than mueller? >> it is very similar to mueller except that he has a permanent staff of crack investigators.
this is the most prestigious u.s. aettorney's office in the country. and it was icing on the cake for democrats who had a good day because there were a lot of court decisions harmful for president trump. >> we haven't had a break in the hour since i got a toss from rachel. i got to fit one in. after this quick break there is a new member of the president's cabinet out tonight. we'll tell you more. we'll tell you more. it's not small. but it's not just big either. it's the kind of big where you'll never have to ask, "should i scooch up?" it's big that looks at a sunroof and wonders why it can't just be most of the roof. it's big that's better because we built it that way. the spacious, 121 cubic feet of cargo space ford expedition.
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twitter that acting homeland security secretary has resigned. he took over after kristen nielsen was forced out in april.. on monday he walked off stage during a speech on immigration after protesters had drowned him out with chants of quote immigra immigrants are under attack. last week he also told the "washington post" his concerns for what he called the tone and message for public immigration policy wadely seen as an indictment of how the president does those things. i'm joined by phone by national security and justicer correspondent for nbc news. thank trz hopping on the it line. >> thanks for having me. what a night, ari. >> what happened here? >> so we understand that mccal exenan resigned. he was not forced out.
it was widely known the acting head of u.s. citizenship is thought to be auditioning for this job as dhs secretary. he's much more vocal, much more in line with the president and steven miller's thinking. does not hold back on brags ideas about immigration. he's been in dhs for a long time and served during the obama administration. he's more of an operational man than a policy/politics man. so for a long time i think he saw kuch nelly as someone who wanted his job. the name is footed as an immigration czar before he got this current job. and so mcaleenan has been eyeing the exit. he told chuck todd he would look
forward to going back to his role at customs and boarder protection. >> let's take a look at that. we're d we're going to play him talking to chuck todd. we don't have it. well, i have it in front of me for context. he said u.s. customs and boarder protection it, my home, my agency, my dream job but i'm honorered to serve in this role as a tremendous capability at dhs and when asked if it he would go permanent, he didn't sound enthused. what does it say about policy in the united states right now on the president's state of priority of immigration that the acting secretary never became permanent is out and there will be another acting secretary. is this any way to run the government? >> it says a lot about how
extre extreme president wants his immigration policy to be. mcaleenan over saw some of televise of the harshest asylum policies to date where they're told they have to claim asylum in a country like el salvador before the united states where they're forced back across into mexico to wait for court dates in the u.s. it's not that he was someone softer on immigration and is resigning because of that. it seems he really got upset with the messaging and now that he sees that the numbers are going down, this seems liking a safe time to kpet. it could be more extreme than we've already seen. >> you say extreme and for those keeping track, kuchineli was considered too extreme and too right wing for the republican senate to confirm him which is
why he's been moved to an unconfirmed post. we have so much breaking news. so we're gedoing fit in one more break and we have gabe sherman leaving fox news. we're going to show you the prooff it was a surprise. w you prooff it was a surprise ♪ limu emu & doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance
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governot just the powerful and well-connected. that's the american promise. but big corporations and special interests are in control. nothing's happening for real people. our democracy has been purchased. the candidates running for president have great ideas. but we can't get anything done unless we make our democracy serve the people again. i'm tom steyer. i approve this message. i'm running for president because it's time our democracy works for people.
first of all he's abusing his powers by having all these acting secretaries. it if he puts in ken cuccinelli, he's already been turned down for confer magsz.. it could end up being one of the abusive power article of impeachment. but there's another huge development in immigration. the president was trying to take money from the pentagon and use it on an emergency basis to build his wall. he got slapped down by the court, said he cannot do that. what dictators do in banana republics is they declare an emergency. the courts have now pushed back. his is a very, very good day all around for the republic. it's like jimmy breslin who i co
director a film about recently. he wrote a book called "how the good guys finally won." today we're getting an indication the good guys are going to win eventually. we just got to hang in. >> jennifer, i wunonder what yo think about all of this that while sometimes trump's news distracts from other trump news and it all gets convoluted. here rudy giuliani's problems have otherwise obviously crowded out what jonathan just outlined, which is for one thing court standing up to the wall money grab. >> i think the walls are closing in wherever you look, pardon the reference to walls. not only that decision but the so-called public charge decision saying that they were going to try to make essentially green cards condition on people's ability never to have taken any been if thes whatsoever.
that also got slapped down. i think what you're seeing on the personnel front anybody with an ounce of credibility, is being forced out or leaving in droves. and what you have is the hackery that is now taken hold whether it's in state, nsa, whether it's homeland security and the people who are left are people who really have no loyalty, no exerp experper tease and -- expertise and that means they're going to be free agents to talk publicly about what they know and that's bad news for donald trump. >> what happens if if you run a government like that? how long can you pressure and bully and retaliate against people? a lot of these people are
speaking back in what ambassador mcfall said earlier was the most patriotic of ways. >> trump calls them the doop state. that might bebecomecome a posit word. they' they're patriot said and every time one does it encourages the next one to do it. bravery breeds more bravery. i don't think he's going to be able to plug holes in the ship of state. he's going down one way or another. because every day brings another revolution, another person testifying against him. >> thank you so much. really fascinating on this big night. coming up, shep smith's 23-year career ended abruptly today. here later with what's going on behind the scenes. h what's goin behind the scenes. performance comes in lots of flavors.
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sometimes the news that breaks on air is actually about the news. today the top anchor at fox news made a surprising announcement. he's leaving after 23 years. >> this is my last news cast here. together with my colleagues we've writ an first draft of history and endeavor to deliver it to you speaking truth to power without fear or favor in context and with perspective. i am eternally grateful for the opportunity.
even in our currently polarized nation it's my hope that the facts will win the day, that truth will always matter, that journalism and journalists will thrive. >> that surprise left some news anchors stunned including one who took the hand off from smith and sat in silence for several seconds adding he didn't know what to say. and roberts said this was like getting hit by a subway train. smith often stood out for his fact checking of donald trump. >> it's absolutely crazy. he keeps repeating ridiculous throw away lines that are not true at all and sort of avoiding this issue of russia as if we're some kind of fool ts for asking the question. president trump's most latest xenophobic interruption. he decries fake news that isn't and disseminates fake news that
is. china paying tariffs, the wall is going up, russia probe is a witch hunt, noise from wind mills causes cancer. it's endless. and now the sharpy map that hurricanes in alabama. they've been suggesting that whistleblower or their sources got something wrong. he did what he's accused of doing, this time on live television. >> trump hasn't liked that and he brushed it away and made an inaccurate attack on smith's ratings which we're not going to repeat. his own colleagues like tucker carlson attacked him on air. the two were feuding. he had grown uncomfortable with the trump-friendly tone of the network combine would the public insults. the rift inside fox news is about something larger than media.
considerer the 20% jump in support for impeachment among republicans. a growing volume in the criticism of trump on some national security issues at the very time he faces this issuest the time trump faces the threat to his presidency. fox has often taken a nothing to see here approach to trump's scandals, but impeachment is a different animal. it's a management bedlam. this massive thing happened and no one knows how to cover it. trump has pushed back fiercely, a strategy that may use a simple premise, to hold the republican senate, you don't just persuade republican senators. you try to hold on to their constituents, aka, fox's audience. trump's not the only one reaching out either. "new york times" reporting that william barr just met privately with fox corporation murdock at his home in new york just two days ago. what do these moves mean? is fox doubling down on the
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visit geico.com and see how easy saving on renters insurance can be. recently i asked the company to allow me to leave fox news after requesting that i stay, they obliged. under our agreement, i won't be reporting elsewhere, at least in the near future, but i will be able to see more of geo and lucia and our friends and
family. and we'll see what comes along. this is my last news cast here. thank you for watching today and over the decades as i travel to many of your communities and anchored this program, studio b, and fox report plus endless marathon hours of breaking news. it's been an honor and my pleasure. >> fox news anchor shepherd smith with his surprise announcement today he is leaving toks news amidst growing tensions over donald trump. he was a rare piece of decent for a channel that's been criticized. as the musician put it in a song about fox news, quote, when does the ignorance stop? watch what your watching, fox news feeding us toxins, start thinking outside the box. joining us now the gabe sherman, the leading journalist on so many pieces of intrigue inside fox news jumping on via skype on a friday night. thank you sir.
>> thanks for having me. >> you look at this surprise announcement. what does it mean in the larger tensions within fox, with shep's on air feud with tucker carlson, and the direction of the channel at such a critical time for donald trump's presidency. >> i was traveling for the long weekend but my phone started blowing up from sources. what i've heard from multiple people inside the network, that was a decision that was in motion several weeks ago. shepherd smith had grown increasingly uncomfortable with the blanket pro-trump tenor of the network. the tucker carlson feud of course being the final straw, and he hired a high-profile attorney to negotiate an exit out of his contract. and fox news management decided rather than doing a messy public fight, to let him out of the
deal. so, this is clearly a very vivid example of the civil war that has been taking place inside fox news about how they cover trump. the mueller report was one thing, but as i reported in ""vanit "vanity," impeachment is the existential threat. >> and they're covering it different ways. it was clear will you a surprise to even close insiders. take a look at this brief clip in the hand off. news viewers know how the hand offs work. here was kneel ka vineil cavuto announcement. >> i'm a little stunned and heart broken. i don't know what to say. >> gabe. >> yeah. that is a genuine one of these live tv moments. neil like shep periherd was at since the beginning.
he commands a lot of loyalty inside the network. this was something that was handled at the top levels. shep kept his cards close. no one inside the network that i spoke to knew that this was coming. so, when he announced it on air, it was actually a piece of new that is he himself was breaking. so, it was capital j journalism out the door. >> and finally you mentioned impeachment. we see the rising support, at least for impeachment probe, among some republicans. how is this different for fox and does donald trump rejoice with shep out? >> well, you know, as i've reported, fox news is really the firewall. so, if fox news' coverage changes, which we don't see signs that it is. shep's departure clearly is a victory for donald trump. but the degree to which other journalists at fox actually cover what is happening with the ukraine scandal, you know, that will erode donald trump's base. donald trump cannot afford to
lose fox news. as you mentioned at the top of the segment, he can maybe lose senators but the key constituency he has to hold is the fox news audience. that's why we saw him jump on this news and celebrate. >> that's why it's such a media story at least in donald trump's television presidency it is the ultimate constituency story. gabe, you're one of several intrepid journalists who's jumped in for us. i want to tell you one other thing. a programming note for this weekend, i am hosting a special this sunday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on trump and ukraine, the impeachment crisis. we have a deep look at where the impeachment is headed. i'll be joined by special guests including a federal appeals judge and the u.s. senator who cast a vote on impeachment. we're going to go big and deep. i hope you'll join us 9:00 p.m. eastern on sunday night. and right after, richard engel
on assignment, trump and ukraine fact and fiction which looks to be relevant with everything happening in rudy giuliani this weekend. that is tonight's last word. "the 11th hour with brian williams" is up next. lliams" ist tonight the feds are turning up the heat on rudy giuliani. his two close associates share a mug shot having been arrested just before skipping the country. and now the president gets a little vague as to whether rudy is still his attorney. while a high ranking state department official alleges that profit-seeking from the president's friends drove american foreign policy making in the state department. the democrats now plan to, quote, continue and accelerate promising more testimony is coming. we'll also take a good long look at what promises to be another important week ahead. plus another trump cabinet official is out just tonight just like that as the 11th hour gets under way on a friday evening.